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My softener does not remove the water from my salt tank
when it regenerates.
What should I check?
1. Make sure all the fittings are tight. Also check the tubing going to the
salt tank for small cracks. Any air leak will cause the valve to
not draw the water out during the regeneration cycle.
2. Make sure the drain line is not clogged or restricted. This also can cause the valves normal suction to fail.
3. Check the injector and injector screen for debris or clogging.
4. On Autotrol valves, check that the two large main valves ( # 2 and # 3 ) are fully closed during the Brine Rinse ( Draw ) cycle. If they fail to close, it results in no suction. In fact it will result in the valve attempting to fill the salt tank during the time it should be removing the salt water. This could be caused by something near the metal "tab" blocking the "tab" from standing straight up ( closing the rubber valve underneath, inside ),
OR you could have something inside preventing full closure. On older valves, this can be caused by chlorine damage to the rubber valve discs.
See the Rebuild guides on our Do It Yourself ( DIY ) Repairs page for more about the Valve Discs functions and how to replace them.
For Piston Assembly or Rotor Disc Valves, the problem can be caused by internal leaks due to wear or damaged Pistons, Rotor, and especially the Seals they contact with in the control valve. Replacement guides for common types will be found on our DIY repairs page.
5. If your Resin Tank is INSIDE the Brine Tank ( one piece "cabinet" design popular in Europe and the U.S.A. ), you may have a leak in the RESIN TANK.
Try unplugging the electric, so the Valve can NOT regenerate, and see if the water level continues to Rise from one day to the next.
6. Also check for leaking of the Brine Valve, which should be closed after the Brine Refill is completed.
You can disconnect the Brine tubing at the Control Valve end to make sure the Valve is not sending any water to the Brine Tank area ( this could occur if the # 1 Valve Disc ( on Autotrol Valves ) or Brine Piston Assembly ( on Fleck Valves )or Internal Seal leak ( on Rotor Disc type valves ) is being held open by debris of some kind or is very worn due to age.
If your Valve is NorthStar, Sears Kenmore, or GE Smartwater,
Then READ THIS > BRINE DRAW FAILURE
When do the resins in the softener tank need to be changed?
1. The average water softener will not need it's resins replaced in it's life
time ( 20 + years ).
2. Water softening resins need to be replaced if the unit has developed a
high level of bacteria that does not respond to a cleaning with chlorine. Odors
from units left in a not working mode with no water flowing through them for
months at a time can develop this problem. Also, units in direct sunlight (
Florida ) can develop a layer of algae that requires complete resin replacement.
3. An excessive amount of sand in resin tank, due to a well starting to collapse, can
necessitate resin replacement.
For more Info:
Check out the
Resin Replacement Guide
Can the softener cause pressure loss, if so what do I look for, and what do I need to fix it?
Yes, a softener can cause pressure loss in the home due to resistance from
the resin bed caused by one of the following.
1. On well water, this is usually due to fine sand coming from the well.
2. On softeners installed in the open sunlight ( mostly in Florida ), a layer of algae can grow and thick pieces of this growth clog the
lower distributor tube screen when they start peeling off the inside of the
resin tank.
3. On chlorinated water supplies, sand can get into the tank from new construction or work on
water lines in the area. All of these situations are rare.
4. The most common cause of pressure loss occurs on chlorinated water.
The resins can be damaged by high chlorine levels and turn to mush in as little as 5 years. This has the same effect as having fine sand at the bottom of the resin tank.
The solution for all of the above problems is to dump the resin tank, clean and rebed with new resins. One cubic foot of
softening resins is enough to properly fill the average residential softener. We can calculate the amount for you, if you provide
exact resin tank dimensions. Or see the chart of tank sizes at the bottom of our Resin Replacement Guide
The second most common reason for pressure loss occurs with Autotrol control valves.
The flapper valve discs swell up when used on chlorinated water. This causes the holes in the valve to become block, resulting in pressure loss at high flow
rates.
To see an example go
here
The solution for this problem is to replace the valve discs set and the backwash flow control ball ( this part also swells up ). See
Autotrol Parts Page
How much salt should my softener be using?
1. The average is 80 lbs. per month, BUT can vary depending upon the type of
valve used and the quality of water being treated.
2. Metered valves will tent to use less salt than a non metered unit ( i.e.
one set to regenerate every so many days with no regards for actual water used
).
3. An average softener with 1 cu. ft. of resins ( 32,000 grain, 9" x
48" tank ) should use about 8 lbs. per regeneration to achieve a economical
24,000 grain capacity ( hardness in grains divided into grains of capacity
results in the gallons of water that can be treated before resins is exhausted
).
Cargill Salt list of Salt related Questions and their Answers! - A must READ to better understand the Salt usage in your Softener System.
My Valve appears to be operating but the Salt is Not Going Down.
What could cause this problem?
The salt not going down could be due to many different reasons.
1 ) Valve is not regenerating due to a problem with Timer Motor or a bad gear in the timer assembly ( common in Autotrol Timer Assemblies ).
2 ) Salt may be Bridged ( become solid ) above water that is at the bottom of the salt tank.
3 ) If you have been using Pellet salt for many years you could have a lot of undissolvable residue at the bottom. This residue will not dissolve and also can block water flow in and out of the salt tank.
4 ) The Valve could be failing to draw the brine solution out and if you have a float shut off in the brine tank, it would be prevent the salt tank from overflowing ( which it would do if the float shut off was not there ).
5 ) The brine refill control could be clogged, preventing water to refill the salt tank.
I see ads for "No Salt" needed water
conditioners.
How do they work without using salt?
1. Many dealers will advertise a no salt water conditioner. Any brand of
water conditioner can be operated without using salt. This is done by using a
salt substitute, potassium chloride. It generally cost twice as much as regular
salt ( sodium chloride ), and can be difficult to find in some areas. Also, it
is recommend to increase the salt setting on your control valve by about 10 % ,
when using a salt substitute.
2. Some companies offer catalytic filters and/or magnetic devices to soften
your water that do not use salt, or anything else to regenerate their product.
Buyer beware! If a technology had been developed that could replace a resin
based water conditioner, then everyone would be selling it. I know I would.
Those salt bags are heavy :)
Will a Water Softener remove the iron from my water?
1. Yes, if the iron is still in solution ( it has not been oxidized ). How much
it can remove depends on the size resin tank of your softener. The more iron in the
water, the larger the resin tank needs to be to remove all the iron. E-mail
us for advice on your situation.
I have a working Water Softener, but I am still getting
Iron Staining. Why is that?
There are several things that could cause you to still be getting staining.
1) It is critical that your system never run empty of salt.
2) It is important that the time of day be kept correct and that no one uses water between 2 a.m. - 3 a.m. when the
system is regenerating. While the system is in regeneration, any water used would be unconditioned ( coming straight
from the well ).
3) In high iron situations it is usually necessary to include a cleaner with the salt. Iron Out ( about 1/4 cup with each 80
lbs of Salt ) is commonly used. So is Tan-X ( Citric Acid, also 1/4 lbs per 80 lbs. ). A cup or two of Chlorine Bleach
can be used, if your softener DOES NOT have "white resins" installed for Tannic Acid Color removal ( this is a special
layer of resins sometimes added to the regular resin inside your resin tank ).
4) It could be your resin tank is too small to handle all the iron.
A. What size is the resin tank?
B. What is the level of Iron and Hardness of the water?
5) It could be you are not regenerating often enough, or using enough salt per regeneration.
A. How often does your softener regenerate?
B. How many people are using the water?
C. How much salt are you using per month?
6) On rare occasions the iron could be coming from just the hot water tank. I've seen a few old ones ( over 20 years
old ) rusting out on the inside, thus putting iron back into the water. This is also true in older mobile homes ( again over
20 years old ) that used galvanized plumbing under the trailer.
Above are the common reasons a working water softener might still be allowing you to get staining. For additional help
and recommendations, please send the answers to the above questions. Also, we can test the iron and hardness for you,
if you send a Small ( 2 or 3 oz is enough ), Full ( no air in container ), Sample of your Raw water. This service is Free.
I have a Water Softener, but I still have odor in my water.
Why is that?
1. Water softeners do not remove most taste and odor problems ( they can
remove the metallic taste of iron in water ).
2. Odors from hydrogen sulfide ( "rotten egg smell" ) in wells or
"bleach" smell in chlorine treated water, require an activated carbon
filter to be used in conjunction with the water softener. E-mail
us for advice on your situation.
3. Sometimes odor in the hot water only, is caused by the self sacrificing
rod installed in your hot water heater. Removal of this rod by your plumber
could solve this problem.
How does my water softener actually work?
1. See Water Softener Basics
Why does soft water feel slimy or slick in the shower?
1. Water that has been conditioned by a water softener allows soap to
dissolve more completely than in hard water. It is common for first time users
of soft water to have a slimy experience in the shower. This is due to using
more soap than is necessary. The amount of soap needed to lather up is very
small in soft water. This is one of the benefits of soft water ( less soap is
needed in the bathing, laundry, and household cleaning ). Also, the pores of
your skin will no longer be clogged by the undissolved soap. Once a person has
adjusted their soap usage and is used to the smooth clean feeling achieved by
bathing in soft water, they will have a negative "ruff" feeling, if
they bath in hard water again.
What types of water problems are common?
1. See Common Water Problems
Will a Water Softener make my water safe to drink?
1. No. Your water must be safe to drink before you condition the water with a
softener. If you are concerned about the safety of your drinking water, contact
your local health department about getting a bacteria test, or full lab analysis
on your water.
Can I replace just the control valve head and reuse my
resin tank, and salt tank?
1. Yes. See <
How to Replace Your Old Valve >
How can I tell what number of backwash plug I need?
1 . Your existing Backwash Plug should have a small number on it. The number matches the diameter ( in inches ) of your
resin tank. The most common is 9 ( for 9" x 48" tanks ). Thus the part number would be 25F-9.
How do I know if I have an Autotrol
155 ( 1550-TC ) or a model 255 Valve?
1. The Series 155 was replaced by the Series 255 late 1995 (
early 1996 ). An easy way to tell the difference is, the brine control ( salt
dial ) is located on the front ( just beneath the timer housing ) on the 155 and
it has been relocated to the right side ( looking from the front ) on the 255. Another noticeable difference
is the Injector Cap, and Injector Screen/Cap are the size of a quarter on the
newer 255. They are about the size of a dime on the older model 155. Note: The
Brine Control and the Backwash Flow Control plugs are identical in size on both
the 155 and the 255. The Backwash Flow Control is on the right hand side (
looking from the front ) on the 155 and has been moved to the left side on the
255.
QUESTION Submitted by Customer:
I just order and received an output connector for an Autotrol timer. Great service!
I replaced the output connector last night and I am not sure that the brine actually was pulled out of the tank. I had to dispose of the
contents of the brine tank because it had a lot of dark particles in it. I assume this happened when the part broke and valves where
opened out of sync.
So I replaced the salt and added about 4 gallons of water to the brine tank. I set the manual regeneration on and observed most of
the cycle. When it got to the first brine cycle, I did not see any water being pulled from the brine tank. How do I know that brine is
being pulled from the tank?
At one point the ball in the clear cup was pulled to the bottom of the cup but I did not see any water flow on top of it. Late in the
cycle I did see brine water in the clear cup, with the ball at the top of the cup, and it appeared to be filling the brine tank.
How do I know the system is working correctly?
Thanks,
Greg L.
ANSWER:
Dear Greg,
The system should work the next time it regenerates. It did not work when you first did it because there would have been air
in the brine line tubing from your cleaning of the brine tank. When ever you disconnect the brine tubing or anything that causes
the water to come out of the air check or tubing, you MUST put the valve in brine refill for about 15 seconds ( after you have
everything reconnected ) to purge any air from the air check and the tubing.
Your system "air checked" too soon because of the air in the tubing. But as I said, it should be okay NOW. You can see the
water being pulled into the valve through the air check ( it takes 5 - 15 minutes to empty the brine tank ) and watch the water
level drop in the brine tank, when the system is working correctly.
Let me know if you have any further problems, or questions.
Best Regards,
Andrew Cross
QUESTION
Our resin tank appears to have failed. The system filled our house plumbing with an orange sand like material. We close the bypass valve and flushed the system. What should we do with the water conditioner repair or replace? Is the resin tank warranty good for life the system. Our system is 10 years old.
ANSWER
Repair. Most warranties expire after 5 years.
This problem is very common on chlorinated "city" water, but can occur on well water too.
The distributor tube inside the resin tank has failed. You can
replace the distributor tube by purchasing a new "Bottom" distributor
and gluing it to a piece of PVC pipe.
See:
http://softenerparts.zoovy.com/product/23D121304
This part combines with a piece of 3/4" PVC pipe( 1.05" O.D. ), which may be
a little larger in diameter than the 13/16" O.D. size you may have now ( if
your system is an Autotrol made before 1998, that is about the time they changed
to the larger size now used on all new valves ).
Many other brands have been using the larger 1.05" diameter tube for a longer time.
If need be, you can adapter to the opening in the bottom of your valve ( the
tube is held into the Valve by an oring, so it pulls out and pushes back
in ) by saving 6" of your old 13/16" pipe and gluing it INSIDE the 3/4 PVC pipe ( it
is a nice tight fit when using Schedule 40 PVC ).
You will want to check the resin level in the tank. It needs to be at
least 1/2 full.
See:
http://softnerparts.com/category/6600.resinreplacement
Let me know if you have any questions or concerns.
Regards,
Andrew
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